Curse

Sleeper Service · Jan 29, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Normally, I'd agree, but now that there are actual skills that have effects while drunk, there are ways to get the title outside of sitting around and accumulating minutes. This means they actually encourage getting a drunkard title while doing other things, ya know, like playing the game. If people want to get the title as fast as possible, then they must do it the grindy way, and that is their prerogative. The reward (title) is the same either way.

Same thing goes for Sweet Tooth, except they have in-game effects built into the items themselves. There still exists that quicker, grindy route: i.e. sit there and double-click till their fingers fall off.

Again, options are there, and the reward is the same either way.

sadly these are fairly recent additions to the game, until then it was just "click click click" (unless you went out and played while drunk, many people did it that way i know) BUT although the reward is the same (not that its much of a reward but hey) one person is playing and the other uh...grinding.

thats cool no problem.

then you have another person who gets that title and is not even sitting at the computer.

And its the same.

Titles that work like that are bad.

From a gamers perspective they are AWFUL, if people want to uh.."play" that part of the game thats cool. But we really cant blame them for using a bot program to circumvent that part...but then they are not playing they are just getting the title (for the reward, prestige, whatever) and bots are against the EULA.

which is why titles like that are bad.

in fact an attempt of a solution to it would be that progression of said title would only work when using the corresponding skills.

*shrugs*

Numa Pompilius · Jan 29, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I don't know what drug the support guy was on, but allowing timed scripting of keystrokes and mouseclicks equals allowing bots. Any bots. All bots.

There is no difference between "fully automating gameplay" and "playing back keystrokes and mouseclicks with timing, as if the player was clicking himself".

Like I've said I don't think ANet will care if you automate getting Drunkard, but make no mistake: you're botting.

arcanemacabre · Jan 29, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Titles that work like that are bad.

...

in fact an attempt of a solution to it would be that progression of said title would only work when using the corresponding skills.

Oh no, I agree. The very basis of titles like that (and subsequently wisdom - just ungh) is pretty much the reason I don't respect them, and pretty much any other title since they can be acquired by proxy, or by other means than intended (such as the zoning bug for drunken).

This solution might work, but only if they severely decrease the total minutes.

Sleeper Service · Jan 29, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

Hmm, interesting responses...

I found this in another thread linked to by I D E L E T E D I.

I think the part "fully automate characters" is rather interesting here...

The G15 keyborad is able to log and repeat as well as keystrokes as mouse movements. To run a script to doubleclick a spot on the screen every minute is not what I call fully automated. Fully automated is when you make your carachter go out and FARM gold and items.

This IS a question about wether it's ok to click a spot on the screen, not to fully automate a carachter.

And then it is always the question of, do people KNOW it's bannable, or is it just a matter of opinion what they THINK it should be?

According to the Anet support answer, it should be ok to run scripts that click on a spot on the screen ^^

Fully automated is when you dont even need to be at your computer for the toon on your screen to do stuff.

its AUTOMATED.

but then again how can one determine if there is someone in front of the screen anyways? barring random PMs, phonecalls or webcams you cant.

so once that door is cracked open you might as well knock down the wall holding it in place.

I know im sounding virulently against automation but in fact im all for it(particularty for hero builds).

In fact i think it should be integrated into the game so as to curb the need for dodgy 3rd party software.

no. im against stuff like AFK titles because if the automation had been implemented into the game from the start....those titles would not be in the shape we see them now, they would require more "intelligent" user input than clicking because it would have been pointless (even more so than now).

so to come back to the OP. that program you describe, is a bot. its against the EULA and its bad.
BUT all you have to do in that situation is deny the fact that you are away from your pc when using that program and...you'll be fine (unless they check chat logs...but then you can say you were using vent).

totally hypocritical, nearly totally Anets fault.

DarkGanni · Jan 29, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Personally I suggest sending a private message to Gaile Gray about this and see what happens, maybe its approved by Anet.

- Ganni

I D E L E T E D I · Jan 29, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

Personally I suggest sending a private message to Gaile Gray about this and see what happens, maybe its approved by Anet.

- Ganni

Yup i just did that

really hope she would reply^^

scrinner · Jan 29, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Theres a difference that was explained. Texmod Requires you to Be at your computer. That program doesn't thus breaking the EULA.

I knew Texmod would be used as an excuse eventually

Numa Pompilius · Jan 29, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrinner

Theres a difference that was explained. Texmod Requires you to Be at your computer. That program doesn't thus breaking the EULA.

I knew Texmod would be used as an excuse eventually

No one is saying TexMod is botting software; the G15 scripting language and the various mouse/keypress recording software, such as Ghostmouse, are. Please read thread.

Alexandra-Sweet · Jan 29, 2008, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Why can't the Drunkard title be like Sweet Tooth? Then we wouldn't have all these problems.

echX · Jan 29, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

The reason TexMod was brought up as an example is the part

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service..."

Because TexMod is a 3rd party software thaat GIVES an edge while still playing the game. I have nothing against TexMod personally but I see the point from those suggesting it's a bit of 'cheat' :P Still, Anet cleared it for use.

And yes, the Drunkard title is a grinding only title thus making it pretty silly... ANYONE can grind, thats's for sure. Legendary Survivor och Legendary Protector/Guardian, THOSE are real titles that count!
I also liked the idea of getting the title while activating skills under the influence of alcohol.

I just think one have to be careful when you say "a bot is a bot".
In my opinion it depends of WHAT the "so called bot" is doing.
If it's grinding a title by doubleclicking a stack every minute, fine by me. It wont harm anyone... right?

If it's illegal, I won't use it and that's that.

If it's about farming Shing Jea for items and gold, to h*ll with it! Now THAT is screwing with 'mother nature' and I would never do such a thing. I have even helped report people who have openly admitted using bot programs and had them banned, at least temporarily.

I'm just going to go out on a stretch here and make a kind of a comparison about this whole bot is a bot subject...

Common sense says you cant kill people, period. Nothing weird about that, right? But if a burglar came into your home and thretened to harm, or even kill you and your family over a couple of bucks you are faced with a choice. Stand by your principles not to kill anyone, or redefine the term "not to kill anyone" for the sake of your loved ones.

Sure, I'm making a bit extreme here, no question about that, but ANYONE would say that they would kill in self defense to protect their family

Thus, a bot is a bot (you shall not kill)? I say it depends on the situation

But in the end, I sent a request to Anet and asked for their opinion... I will let you guys know what was the outcome and obide by their rules

(not about the killing part, the Bot thingy

)

MithranArkanere · Jan 29, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I just drink when I'm iddle.

If I have 5 minutes while forming a party and qe zone to th party, I get 3..8 minutes when zoning.

Unless they fix the title adding Effect icons while in explorables instead of blurr effects, or make it count every time you use a drink while drunk (Hunter ale: Nothing, Hunter ale, Nothing, Next hunter ale, +1 point.)

This would be an unfair advantage.
Why? HoM.

If getting drunkard gives anything, whatever it is in GW2, then people using bots would get that much easier than players.

Cargan · Jan 29, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

As far as your character doing things while you're afk goes, Anet allows it and enourages it. LDoA death levelling anyone? 9 Rings for lucky title?

so yes, some titles do encourage you to spend hours afk while you gain from it, and are clearly encouraged.This one is really no different. IMHO, if they want to stop this then they should change it to alcohol units consumed, not minutes.

As the OP said, we really do need an official word on using the mouse-clicker to aid in achieving this title if it is not going to be changed.

IslandHermet · Jan 29, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

This Drunk title is one slow title

My friend has found a 28 days trial Mouse Movement Recording program that is able to... um... well... record mouse movements and then repeat them

With this program one should be able to drink alcohol automaticly since the mouse will doubleclick on a stack of ale every minute. So while you are asleep or at school/work, your carachter is standing in your Guild Hall having the time of his life! Life is just not fair

But then I read in the EULA (European User License Agreement) that

"§7... You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."

Simply put, one would not be allowed to use software that is able to PLAY the game without human input...

And that I agree with fully. Bot programs ruin the economy since folks have piles of gold to spend after doing a little bot farmimg. But... Bot programs are about GETTING things/gold, this would be about CONSUMING items that you have allready bought! And you still have to PLAY the game to get the gold, and BUY the items. Then it's only a matter of mindless, soulless doubleclicking

I heard that TexMod was cleared by Anet to use in the pursuit of the Cartographer titles. TexMod does not interfere with the client/server communication. Neither would this little honey. If we look at the EULA §7 again, it says:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service..."

TexMod IS software that gives the advantage of exploring the maps. And you still have to GO there by yourself, it's not like the program does that for you :P

Bottom line, would this be ok?

This little doubleclick thingy isn't goint to FARM anyting, it is a matter of CONSUMING items in the game...

Any response from someone who knows? Pehaps with reliable source references?

Any response from Anet? <3 <3 <3

Cuz' I sure as h*ll don't want to spend 166 HOURS all allone in the guildhall stuck with a rambling, digital drunk...

we all have had this topic befor and everyone agrees including Anet that if no one is at the computer while this program in running AKA bot you will be banned

zwei2stein · Jan 29, 2008, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Food for thought:

Consider theese macros:

A)
you map "D" key to

"Doubleclick"

you hover mouse above stack of alcohol and press "D" instead of doubleclicking. You drink alcohol and this saves you a bit of "doubleclick ache"

B)
you map "D" key to

Move mouse to X,Y
Doubleclick
Return mouse to original location

You open inventory and press "D", you drink alcohol with luxury of not having to navigate your mouse to precise spot.

C)
you map your "D" key to

Press "F9"
Move mouse to X, Y
Doubleclick
Return mouse to original location
Press "F9"

Now you can press "D" to drink anytime and you don't have to have inventory open all the time.

D)
you map your "D" key to:

Repeat 10 times:
Press "F9"
Move mouse to X, Y
Doubleclick
Return mouse to original location
Press "F9"
Wait 1 minute.

You press D key to start drinking but instead of having to do it every minute you now do it every 10 minutes.

E)
You map your "D" key to

Repeat forever:
Press "F9"
Move mouse to X, Y
Doubleclick
Return mouse to original location
Press "F9"
Wait 1 minute.

You press "D" to start drinking.

Now, which macro starts breaking rules? They all map single keystroke to simple macro.

snikerz · Jan 29, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

does gw pick up on repetitive patterns?

if one did create a script to click every minute, wouldn't it be possible to add in a random generated time(like 1-10 seconds) between each minute. and as well do the same for clicked area.

k i'll stop talking now heh

IslandHermet · Jan 29, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cargan

As far as your character doing things while you're afk goes, Anet allows it and enourages it. LDoA death levelling anyone? 9 Rings for lucky title?

so yes, some titles do encourage you to spend hours afk while you gain from it, and are clearly encouraged.This one is really no different. IMHO, if they want to stop this then they should change it to alcohol units consumed, not minutes.

As the OP said, we really do need an official word on using the mouse-clicker to aid in achieving this title if it is not going to be changed.

use search we had this topic allready and gaile said YOU WILL GET BANNED IF YOU DO THIS not because its the program but because you can leave this on and let it do it while you are AFK and Anet does not like that.

echX · Jan 29, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Food for thought:

Consider theese macros:

A)...
B)...
C)...
D)...
E)...

Now, which macro starts breaking rules? They all map single keystroke to simple macro.

Heh, kinda funny way to put it

And I see your point. Note taken ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

use search we had this topic allready and gaile said YOU WILL GET BANNED IF YOU DO THIS not because its the program but because you can leave this on and let it do it while you are AFK and Anet does not like that.

Hmm, but what about this scenario...

exit into the Ice Chasms, aggro a Polar Bear, lure him over to the resurrect shrine, strip your armor and let him kill you for 1½ hours... Go to the mall, have a coffee, return home and put on the armor, charm it and Violá!!!! Your brand new Dire/Hearty/Whatever Polar Bear

Or...

Enter the Shing Jea overlook, buy tons and tons of Festival Tickets, go stand on one of those ring thingys... Go to bed and wake up a Lucky Bastard ^^

Or...

Enter Kamadan during the Vinterday Festival, stock up on Candy Cane Shards, go stand on the corresponding Grenth/Dwayna side round thingy... Go to school/work/whatever and come home to a bunch of free I-was-afk Christmas Gifts/Presents/whatever they are called...

In that case it's the same thing... It's not a program doing it but it is done because you can leave it on and go afk...

Hard to define, this question is...

If it's not because of to the program but the AFK, I think that all players will get banned at some point, and there would no one left to play the game... If you can do it in the game (besides bugs and exploits), then it should not be prohibited.
If they strike down on simply the use of the program, that's another thing...

IslandHermet, my guess it's more the program than the AFK'ing...

Sry if I brought up an old subject. Is there a link to this "YOU WILL GET BANNED IF YOU DO THIS" thread??

ty!

Longasc · Jan 29, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

This thread shows perfectly why such titles as drunkard should not even exist.

If you have a program beeping every 3 minutes to remind you or a fully automated macro might make a difference in the EULA, if it can be considered macroing/botting.

But it remains a simple monotonous repetition of one mouse click, which cries for macroing.

Blame the people for botting, but shame on ANet for introducing such title tracks at all.

IslandHermet · Jan 29, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

Heh, kinda funny way to put it

And I see your point. Note taken ^^

Hmm, but what about this scenario...

exit into the Ice Chasms, aggro a Polar Bear, lure him over to the resurrect shrine, strip your armor and let him kill you for 1½ hours... Go to the mall, have a coffee, return home and put on the armor, charm it and Violá!!!! Your brand new Dire/Hearty/Whatever Polar Bear

Or...

Enter the Shing Jea overlook, buy tons and tons of Festival Tickets, go stand on one of those ring thingys... Go to bed and wake up a Lucky Bastard ^^

Or...

Enter Kamadan during the Vinterday Festival, stock up on Candy Cane Shards, go stand on the corresponding Grenth/Dwayna side round thingy... Go to school/work/whatever and come home to a bunch of free I-was-afk Christmas Gifts/Presents/whatever they are called...

In that case it's the same thing... It's not a program doing it but it is done because you can leave it on and go afk...

Hard to define, this question is...

If it's not because of to the program but the AFK, I think that all players will get banned at some point, and there would no one left to play the game... If you can do it in the game (besides bugs and exploits), then it should not be prohibited.
If they strike down on simply the use of the program, that's another thing...

IslandHermet, my guess it's more the program than the AFK'ing...

Sry if I brought up an old subject. Is there a link to this "YOU WILL GET BANNED IF YOU DO THIS" thread??

ty!

none of those mean anything to this matter im just telling everyone we had this topic and Gaile came and posted "you will be banned for useing a 3rd party program to click booze and being AFK while it is doing this" I do not rember the post will look for it.

let me add something Anet does not like it whey the computer plays the game for you (rings of chance are different no computer interaction on your side you just get tickets and stand around the server side computer does all the 3,2,1, winner stuff no clicking or anything of that sort) that is the difference from the event afk titles and this.

when you use this program it is your computer playing the game for you this is what Anet will ban you for.

MithranArkanere · Jan 29, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

This thread shows perfectly why such titles as drunkard should not even exist.

If you have a program beeping every 3 minutes to remind you or a fully automated macro might make a difference in the EULA, if it can be considered macroing/botting.

But it remains a simple monotonous repetition of one mouse click, which cries for macroing.

Blame the people for botting, but shame on ANet for introducing such title tracks at all.

Making any of the things suggested in sardelact would solve all of that.

Work like sweets.
Increase time you can be drunk (Instead of 5 minutes max, 15,20,30 minutes or more).
Add effect icons.

Currently drunkard it's in 'pre-Searing' level of development. It's time to make it work in a modern way, with less 'obscurantism'.